Chief Digital Trust Officer

How do you put digital trust into perspective? We've been talking about digital trust in the last few episodes. But what is it in reality? Is it about a Chief Digital trust officer, or is it more or is it assigned to someone else, and if it is the Chief Digital trust officer, what does a digital trust officer do? And what is its essence, when there are roles like data protection officers, CISO and so on and so forth. And how do you become a Chief Digital trust officer? What skills do you need? How do you grow your career? If you inspire or aspire to get into that direction? These are all interesting questions, and these cannot be answered by anybody. We need someone who has been a CISO, who has been in privacy roles, who's been a CEO and who is probably doing the Chief Digital trust Officer role. And I'm talking about a special person, a unique person who has been the president of ISACA Belgium in the past, who is very active, has spoken at more than 100 conferences, is an active speaker. He is very, very knowledgeable. And I'm talking about someone very unique, someone very special, who's a privacy security and an expert in many things for the last 30 years, sharing his experience, and we are going to talk to none other than Marc Vael, a unique person. Let's go and talk to him.

Hello and welcome to the FIT4Privacy podcast with Punit Bhatia. This is the podcast for those who care about their privacy. Here your host, Punit Bhatia, has conversations with industry leaders about their perspectives, ideas and opinions relating to privacy, data protection and related matters. Be aware that the views and opinions expressed in this podcast are not legal advice. Let us get started.

So here we are with Marc Vael, Mark thank you so much for being with us. It's a pleasure to have you. Welcome to FIT4Privacy podcast.

Thank you for the invitation. Looking forward to it, but it's great to share some experiences. I'm looking forward to your questions

So, let's maybe start with a very, very basic thing. You are a Chief Digital trust officer. What is digital trust? In your view?

It's a new function. If I can believe LinkedIn, I'm the third person after somebody in us and somebody in France. So, I'm the third person in the world and in Belgium. It's basically an inspiration from the World Economic Forum and ISACA. So, I'm doing for more than 23 years, role in Security Leadership. Before that, I did it, and when I was kind of looking for a next level, you know, people when they're security leader, they always want to go see okay, what's next? So, the logical Avenue would have been chief security officer, but then I thought, okay, but that's like a whole different game in terms of changing, adding physical and people to the mix. We already do people, but the physical aspects are a little bit different. And as always, it's a matter of, you know, luck and timing. And in the summer, my president from ESCO reached out and said, You know, I want to do this in my company, and we need more customer focus, and I'm doing steps, there will be a new person for customer experience, a customer experience officer, and I think he will need a team that really focuses on one of the core aspects what customers want is trust. Trust in the software products. Can they rely on it? Can they rely on the people? Do they follow the processes? Do they work according to those? And how can we do that? And I was like, whoa, that would be something. And keeping in mind that World Economic Forum was like, I started rereading all those materials, and the ISACA materials as well. And so for me, digital trust right now. It's a track, it's a it's a roadmap, and the roadmap currently is based on cybersecurity towards customers, privacy towards customers, and compliance towards customers. The insight. So what I noticed is, when I did my function, it was a mix between a lot of insight. A lot of security leaders are looking from within the walls of the organization, globally on 29 topics, 200 tasks, day in, day out. But my approach seven years ago, when I started this function as the first CISO at ESCO so. Was I immediately got called into, let's, can you help us with these customer questions? And it was for me, so overwhelming, interesting and empowering. And I talked with the season of all these customers and big brands, big companies that I would never have dreamt in my life to talk to, and they were very open. They talk the same language, and sometimes, you know, it happened that we discussed. There was discussions over mail for weeks, and I just had a chat for 20 minutes with my counterpart, the customer, and was solved in literally 1015 minutes because we talked the same language. And for me, it struck two. Yes, it's all about trust, and trust is a very important thing. You have it or you don't, and people give trust until something goes wrong. So digital trust is a roadmap. What do I mean? So, when I started this function, I talked with the customer experience officer, and he laid out some of his targets, which were very compliance oriented. And I said, that's excellent. I will continue helping customers with their questions on custom security and privacy, but I will also work on that compliance. So those are the three topics in this year. Next year, we'll enhance it with accessibility, with ethics, so we'll slowly go to that complete track. If you do it all at once, I think it might be overwhelming. People will not understand what the essence is. So, it's a building process. So digital trust is a build process based on the foundations of that digital elements, I'm not in the physical. I'm, of course, linking to people and working with them to create awareness, but it is an essential element to kind of capture that, but build it step by step. I've given myself three years to build that roadmap. It's laid out there so they know what I intend to do, and it was approved. So, I'm really honored that they follow that. And for me, honestly, this is the pinnacle. This is the best thing I will do for the rest of my life.

That's interesting. I see you're motivated and driven and inspired but let me ask you a question. You talked about privacy, security, compliance, and eventually ethics and other dimensions that digital trust would explore and also customer satisfaction or customer journey. Now, for all these functions or all these dimensions or topics, there is a person already for security, there's a CSO for privacy, there's a DPO or CPO based on who you talk to. For compliance, there's a chief compliance officer or chief risk officer. Ethics, there's an ethics officer. So how does this function of digital trust officer work? Or Chief Digital trust officer work? I mean, can you walk us through the life of a Chief Digital trust officer?

Well, and you put it correctly. So, there are people taking that role now in certain organizations, that's absolutely true with a staff and a team around it. Some companies don't have that. When I started seven years ago, I was the first person ever to be hired, and the main reason the CIO told me at that point in time was I'm hiring you because I'm fed up with all discussion with sales and with other people and R D about who's going to answer this question? Because nobody, everybody's looking at each other, so you're the answer. And by the way, if something goes wrong, absolutely we counted you to solve it, of course, but I was under the CIO, now I'm under the Chief Customer Experience Officer, and so that changed the whole dynamics. So yes, you're right. We have still these functions in house, but they're now reporting either to me or they're sitting at the level where I can count on them. But we work together. So, the dynamic of the digital trust officer is that you coordinate, and you work together in a team with people who are experts in the field. I have a DPO who's a real expert globally on privacy. The CISO team, actually the global CISO is sitting at group level, and so I was a security leader in this team, but I still work with him, and they're really focused on the insight in terms of, you know, the awareness, the network security, the application security, the you know, everything around the internal I'm looking from a security point of view of the Excel so for me, the digital trust officer today, and I'm saying today can change in a year, but In today's name is that bridge function between what customers want from a trust translating that to those different functions, either to say, I confirm Good job, or we have some additional things that that we have to add, or we have something but we have to notch up a little bit the level, because the expectation is becoming higher. Higher, actually, interestingly enough, in the last seven years, the last two years, I've seen an incremental increase in requirements, security requirements, privacy requirements, trust requirements. They don't call it trust, but actually it is, and I think we're one of the companies where we got it. Our president got it, my chief customer experience officer got it because we want to make sure that the customers, it's a business-to-business organization. It's different from a B to C organization, I admit. But in a business to business, we have also very important customers, and we have to acknowledge and listen and accept all the different levels. Now it is a very broad sector. There are multiple sectors, but the regulated ones, pharma business, where we talk to, for example, yeah, their levels are so high in terms of expectations, in terms of evidence gathering, in terms of auditing that I work with quality management. I work with our cloud operations team. I work with our support teams. I work with the product teams, but I also work with the security teams. So, for me, the digital trust is also not something that's linked to it only. I think that's a game changer for me. Since January, I report into a role where I feel that I have a bigger spectrum, and it's also recognized as value added, not as a cost factor. It's not something sitting in it somewhere, you know what I mean, kind of doing the job. And, you know, as long as nothing happens, people wonder, are you really working? Because everything works, you know, and if things go wrong and or there's something happening at the customer or at the supplier or in the world, they're like, Hmm, could this happen to us too? So, these questions still come to me, but it's in a different context, because I'm now talking, and it's hard working talking with salespeople, with the I all these people together. So, in that sense, digital Trust has a different vibe. It's coordination to the next level, but with respect for the internal teams, because you don't want to overload them with too many requirements or too many new things at the same time, you want to have respect for the customer. But as we say, the customer is always the king, because ultimately, it's thanks to customers that we organizations live, but they're not the emperor, meaning that we have to be careful that they don't overset their boundaries in terms of requirements.

Yeah, it does make sense. Now I like to pick on something you said earlier, and allow me to do so, you mentioned the return on investment aspect that nobody comes in. You are not a cost center, and you're delivering value, absolutely no doubt about it. Even a privacy professional, a security professional, there is compliance, all of them deliver value, but in terms of initial situation, when they're looking at putting in digital trust officer, how do they see it? I mean, of course, there are two scenarios. Always. One is this happy go scenario, somebody is inspired, and they say, Let's hire the Chief Digital trust officer. Easy one. But sometimes they are not. So how does the process of return on investment, on this function of this department go in?

Well, I can't go into the all the specific details, but let's continue the following. So, the first thing that's very important is that the mission and vision of customer experience and customer centricity and intimacy is carved in stone. That's the first condition, if you don't have that, digital trust won't work. So that's an important change, and the company executive management all look in that same direction. So, there's alignment, and I felt that alignment by talking to all of them individually, and I did, because that's an important element. You have to talk with each of them individually, and there are different levels of maturity, but they all are focused on that lightning rod, like customer intimacy, even if there seem like there's no connection, there is because ultimately, even internal functions are supporting the functions that create the value. And so, I have respect for the creation functions, the product delivery and the product R and D and the innovation, but supporting functions are as important, because if they don't support the value, that people can't work. So, in that sense, I think that the key here is that the return on investment sits in the fact that one the mission vision clearly states where I want to go, translated into hard dollars and euros, obviously, with clear results, what do we want to achieve? And that is then translated to different levels. To me, it's translated in. Question. One, continuation and expansion of certain compliance requirements. Two, internally, because certain compliance requirements are not there yet, customers come and ask a lot of questions. Last year, to give you an idea, I had around 170 customers each asking some questions. But over total, it's around 7500 questions in one year. That is a lot of what we call in Japanese, Muda, you know, in quality management waste, meaning that's a lot of effort, time spent, valuable time essential to keep the trust of that customer, but maybe there are better ways to handle that. So, one of the targets is to bring down that number, not of the questionnaires as such, but answering them by sending them these compliance requirements. And that might enable us to save time on the inside of people who are extremely valuable as well, to make sure they can focus on their core mission and not be, I wouldn't say, distracted, but not be sidetracked on these repetitional questions because of those 7500 questions. Of course, there are duplicates in there, but the point is, we want to avoid that. So we will always have questions, we will always have audits, but bring it down to an acceptable level, and that rings a bell, probably to you, and from a risk perspective, it's also bringing down that overload in compliance to an acceptable level, so the people inside can continue to work, is one of the targets. So yes, it's bringing value by lowering the overload in compliance requirements which have to be done, but handling that in a strategic manner. So that is part of the ROI. Another one is clearly related to, yeah, of course. Let's make sure that there are no incidents, no events, no nothing going wrong. That's of course, because if that impacts customers, they're either going to ask for discounts or for, you know, disruption of contracts. That's, of course, the ultimate sanction. So that's absolutely priority as well. So we're keeping our eye on the ball in the CERN in terms of making sure the best service for the customers, but the same time, make sure that when they ask questions, that we bring down that level of energy side tracked on things that are repetitive in nature and that we say, Wait, there's a standard, or there's a framework, or there's a certification or a reporting framework for that. So those things, those are the tracks I'm working on, and that is clearly translatable in hardcore Dollars and Euros.

Absolutely. Now there are usually two segments of companies, very broadly speaking, one who can afford multiple people. So, we call them 1000s of people company, so number of employee count, and then those who are looking to optimize their different roles. So, is it feasible? In your view, of course, the big ones who can afford people, they will have all the roles that we talked about, the DPO, the CISO, the cdto, and everybody. But for this small or mid-sized who are struggling in terms of the financials to invest into these areas because they don't see it really as a value. Let's put it like that, because usually a small company of 100 people for one 250, people will not say, let's have a DPO. Let's have a CISO. Let's have so. Can they find a solution in this context? Say, Let's hire a Chief Digital trust officer who would do privacy, security and everybody, of course, not by himself or herself. Maybe having one or two people underneath or three, one privacy expert, one security and one compliance is an idea that can work, especially for small or medium sized companies?

Marc 18:50

I think your question is right, and it's something that we're looking at too. It's impossible with the current evolution of regulations and technical evolutions and also the people's interest and having enough people who are smart and passionate about what they do to have this in place in every company won't happen. So one of the avenues is automation, and even we where we also look at investments in a smart way and make sure that the right person at the right place, but we can't handle everything consistently with people only, so one of the elements that I think is an important track in your strategy is automation, automation and compliance, automation in requirements, handling inconsistency and answering these questions, we have a tool for that, just to make sure that if I'm not there, somebody else can really do that and take over that role, and make sure that that continuity in the quality of answers and data and information. Given to customers remains the same or even gets better. So, I think, yes, it will be always a human aspect, even despite all the AI and AGI predictions, I think the human is still the person, and companies are not companies. Companies consist of people, and people talk to each other, and either you trust each other and then it works, or there's some kind of mistrust, or it's a little bit, you know, fight mode. And that doesn't take forever. At certain point in time, one or the other part of say, that's it, I'll give up. And that's not good. So I don't believe in the model of its organizations. It's about people, and people should trust each other, companies, well, their entities, their legal constructions. It's the people inside the companies who work together, but who also work with suppliers, with customers, and ultimately with other stakeholders to make sure that it works. Now that automation track is an important element, because that helps us to focus on the core. I said just a moment ago about the repetition of questionnaires. Well, that's something that there's automation possible, but you always have to be vigilant that it's like Pareto, 80% correct, 20% maybe you need some twisting and making sure it's correct. So, it helps to make sure that even companies who can't afford you know five people for five different functions, to make sure that they can rely on that track combination with human intelligence. And it's about human intelligence, human experience, I could not do this job honestly five or 10 years ago, because I've learned so much in the last five and 10 years and even 20 years that I now feel at the moment where I mature to start it, but I'm discovering. This is a discover. As I said, it's a roadmap, but it's a discovery. What will this entail? What is chewable? What is, you know, what can you, I would say, get as a result, but because it's result driven, and that is key as well. So for smaller organizations, yes, invest in people, smart people, passionate people, but also allow those people to say, I need help by doing some automation, and allow that automation to take place as well, because otherwise it's a it's very hard to keep up to date with all these elements. Plus another bonus of automation is it's easier for you to present summaries and dashboards to your management say, this is where I am, and no Excel files, no self-proclaimed results, but automated, so there's a neutrality or independence in viewing where you are, in your track towards completion of your results.

Okay, not very well said, I think automation certainly can help small and medium sized and in any any sized company, perhaps because there are more inefficiencies as you grow and then you need to take care of but it points me to another question, which you mentioned, saying you five years ago you couldn't do it, and the 20 years of experience you have had, or 20 plus years of experience you have had allows you to play such a role. So, if someone is aiming or inspired to become a Chief Digital trust officer, can you give some guidance on what drives a person, what kind of skills the career path they need to have.

That's a very good question. I don't think it's a career path, per se, but it's a kind of an evolution where you go through so in the beginning, I was also interested in the technical details and went for it. And I want to understand how things work. How were the firewall rules working. How did network security work? And you based on what you like most you go in that have you a bit more than all the other things while keeping tabs on that. But you find yourself like, oh, I like more application quality managed, or I like this better. And you try to go in that direction, if you have the opportunity to do so, because, of course, yeah, not everybody gets the opportunity to do it all by themselves. You have to be given that opportunity by management or by the company itself that offers you that. So it's from a foundational layer, I would call it, where you have to grasp how things work. I think that's key, and you can't know everything. You can't know everything in security. You can't know everything in it. I mean, that's impossible. So you have to pick your battles on what you think you like best. So you have to try an error a bit like, Oh, I like that. That's something, yeah, but not for the long run. So based on that, I'll pay. My items, and I went through a level where also get done a little bit more responsibility a team, and you work with team, oh, that's a different kind of skills that you need to manage your team to work, what works what doesn't work. So those tracks, the hard skills and soft skills, kind of move in the same rhythm, and that is partially because the company gives you that, but also you have to do it yourself. I am a firm believer that don't think that an organization will give you all the means to do this. You'll have to invest in yourself to become good in what you want to be. So, invest in books and publications and seminars and webinars and all the soft skills, same thing, buy books, talk to people, find a mentor. And so I had the opportunity. I was very lucky in my career. I had a few really excellent mentors that were charismatic leaders, which taught me a lot, and they were a part that were in the company, but also still have mentors outside of a company, where I can still call and ask for advice. Now that grows to a level where you feel like, okay, can I do this? Can I do I want to do this? Well, and there's always this. Honestly, you never know until you do it. So, if they give you the opportunity, or the opportunity passes by, you have two choices. Either you say, yes, I'll jump, or say, and the train passes by. So in that sense, I took the first Security Leadership function was not offered to me. It was just a vacancy. And by discussing, I said, I want to try that. And they were looking at me like, Are you sure? Because you've never done this, yeah, but you know, give me six months, and let's see, and then we'll make an honest opinion. 23 years later, still doing it. So it is an opportunity that came by, and I took it. So that's one two. I think that I learned a lot from not the hard skills and the evolution of technology and how it works and what happens. And I kept a lot of things, but also, leadership is something intangible. How do you become a leader? I don't know. I mean, it comes to you, and people sometimes say hey, and they talk to you, like, how do you know me? And I was not aware of that. And especially the last five years, I've completely shifted from absorbing to giving back. And I think that is the main change that happened in my life, the last five years, where I really made that complete 180 degrees shift to, you know, what I'm going to share, I really am going to share the best I can. Previously, it was ad hoc. Now it's like, I go and if people want to help, or they want my help, I'll go for it. And I felt that feedback coming from those people based on their questions. But also sometimes, ooh, you know, you help me. And this is an idea that you can't pay that's priceless. And I think that brought me to a level where I say, like I feel comfortable in the function I am, but it's still in discovery, so there's still this kind of adventure connected to it. But I believe that it's a combination of opportunity, feeling that, yeah, you kind of could be able to do that, but not 100% but sure, why not the adventure part, but also in the investments I've did in the last 33 years in my career was, I always read a lot, I absorbed a lot. I tried to kind of coordinate it, sometimes, giving it back through the community in terms of, you know, people, students, etc. So it's that combination. But now, in the last five years, I don't know, something clicked that made me say, You know what share and that element of getting back is such an amazing element. So that is the big change, I think, in my life. At the moment.

No, I can agree, fully agree with that. In fact, I'm tempted to ask you one more question in that sense, because when you learn in this world, in this digital, emerging tech AI world, sometimes and want to go to conferences and buy books or something. There's so many things to do, so many options. You can do this; you can do that. You can go there; you can do here. So, you have to consistently make choices, and there's no sometimes it feels like there's no right choice. Whatever choice you'll make will be wrong, because you'll be missing out something and gaining something. Do you ever feel that?

FOMO, the fear of missing out. I did a long I did before four or five years ago. I did was like, oh, I have to do this. After this. Oh, yeah, I'll do it. And I don't know, somewhere it kind of came to me like, I'll have to focus. That focus element is. Essential focus on, you know, throughout this career, I started with everything I knew in beginning 33 years ago, I knew literally everything of it, because there was IBM mainframe, and that was it. And I knew that machine inside out the controllers, and I saw a lot of observation. It was great. And the more I evolved, the more my attention, my focus had to go more and more find you, because it was impossible. And did you get frustrated? Or you say, no, I have to drop certain hours. It was always amazing when I in the summer, when I do my cleanup, and there was, like the paper cleanup initially. Now it's a digital cleanup, but it's I go through, what topics did I not touch for a whole year? And believe me, it was extremely hard and beginning to take that to the Container Recycling Park and say, you know what? Chuck it away. That took me a long time, and my wife helped me to say, maybe you should focus. Which things do you touch? So, it's also people around you say, shouldn't you be kind of focusing, and what did you touch? Because that stays in touch for a long time. So it took me a while to really chuck a lot of stuff away, and now it's becoming a habit of saying, I'll focus, and what I don't need, I'll drop in terms of topics and so now I have that focus, but indeed, it's a continuous improvement kind of thing, where you always have to say, ai, ai, ai, cool. Yeah, I know that. I learned that in Lisbon, but now it's complete different world. So, wait, what do I want to achieve with that. What are good frameworks? Where do I go to? So ISACA, what do they say about this? Okay, but then other sources, well, okay, NIST, what do they say about and you try to and again, that continues making your own kind of vision on that topic and taking out my needs. So,, I will look at it now with the lens. Since this year from a digital trust expert, saying, what is needed from my customer perspective, actually, a year ago, we got the first two questionnaires by customers saying, Hey, are you doing AI and what are you doing? The first 20 questions, I was like, this is the start of something, and it's slowly, gradually build up. So, I'm always looking at now for the from the perspective of the customer, okay, how can this help? To say to the customer, look, we're using it, but also giving feedback to insight, saying we should do this. We should do this. I'm one of the top prompt engineers in my in my whole organization. Why I like playing with these things to know how it works, and before you know it, your number two is like, whoa. I didn't expect that, but it's because you do not do this only when it's required. You do this because you're intrigued by it. So, there's always a part of, I would say, interest, but also, like this curiosity from a child. I'm curious as a child, like, how does this work? What can I do? What can't it do? What limitations? So as long as you keep that kind of curiosity, I think you can focus, you can see how it works, and then, say, drop or keep only the elements that are relevant. And I think that's the key, but it's true, the fear of missing out. I actually in terms of events, and you know, all the things you have to do, it's a mix. Yes, you want to read a little bit, but you do not only want to read a little bit. You want to see things. You want to talk with people. You want to exchange experience and see how other people react to it. So, it's a combination of, but that's how I see it, and it took me a while to get that mix, believe me. I mean, if you will see me, 33 years ago, you were like, Oh, poor guy, introvert and not talking. And now then the thing went all the way overboard to the other side, like, oh, stop, stop. And yeah, it now I'm trying to find the balance, but it's continuous interest and curiosity, but also trying to get experience from other people in other organizations, other functions. And you see sometimes that there are things that are the same. So, in that sense, it's quite interesting.

 No, it's a very profound answer I think in any field. Whether your digital trust, privacy or security or any other field for that matter, I think you need to keep curiosity. You need to keep introspecting and continually improve and bring in your, uh, how you should I say evolution. Because you start with something, some preconceived ideas, and over the years you see this is possible. That is possible. Take those opportunities, take those chances, and then, uh. You have a journey.

 It is a journey. It is absolutely a journey, and I think you build, and you have to find what works, what doesn't work, and a factor of luck is very important to give an opportunity or find that magic thing that you want. I'm a firm believer that if you really find your specialty and your niche and you go for it, that people find out, will say, Ooh, this person is really somebody who I can. Trust to ask a question and see how that person reacts. But people evolve over time and it's also depending, I mean, I was lucky to work in a company initially where documentation was very important. If you didn't document, that's why they were very expensive, because they documented not just aside the code, but also inside the code because they were thinking long term. If in 5 years somebody looks at a code, if their documentation, the successor will be able to say, Ooh, that's that part, that's that part, that's that thing on the script. That's how it works. So that was smart, and I was also lucky to work in a company which. Paid for sharing knowledge. So, you got a kind of an extra bonus if you shared knowledge that was used by others with a thumbs up, like, wow, what you did.  I'm using this for customers, and it really works. So that was interesting. Also, I've never found another company since that that does that, by the way, but okay. But it's influencing your behavior in terms of. How can I contribute and how I give back? But I was, uh, noticing somebody who were the first time giving a presentation and she was really reading from the page.  And you, you're thinking like, why is she doing that? But then I thought to myself, mark, how were you 33 years ago? Probably the same reading from a script, a bit nervous. Never done that. So, it's part of that evolution and. Part of the soft skills cannot be underestimated. Presentation skills, writing skills.  Some people say, oh, AI will do it. No, no. I actually, honestly, I can. Really quickly discover if it's AI written, because if people just copy paste it, it is very recognizable in structure, but also in the way it writes. And it's between that to the point and very vague type of thing. I can't put my finger on it, but when I read it, it smells, looks like.  This is done through an AI system without any review. And it's okay. It's a support, it's needed. It does magic things, but you still have to regurgitate and resample it and make it tailored to what you want to achieve in your document. So it is that learning curve and I'm fascinated by it, but I'm also trying to promote people and say, do it.  Yeah, but I've never done it. If you've never done it, there will be a point in your career. That's what my mentor is 30 years ago said, Marc, there will be a point in your career you will have to give a presentation that will make or break your project or whatever you do if it's then the first time you ever present.  People are not gonna give you the go ahead. You'll have to train, train, train. Every opportunity to train is important. So yes, the fear of missing out was also a little bit like, I want to use this opportunity to become better in presenting, to be better in sharing my knowledge and the older I get, the more I do it, the more I try to balance it.  Initially it was like share, share and woo thousand slides. Now it's like. Let's see, let's, you know, balance it out. And that thing changed my perception as well, but it's, I'm sure if we do this thing in five years, it'll be different again.

Makes sense, I think it's a journey everybody goes through, and if you get the right opportunities, put the right focus.  Keep on innovating yourself for. I mean, finding yourself is also a journey. But anyways if we start on that, then it's one hour more so in function of time. I would say. It has been wonderful to have your insights. I'm sure people will be inspired by listening to this, and if they want to contact you, what would be the best way to reach out to you?

 Well, the simplest way is LinkedIn actually, because I'll notice. And that's the way to get a first contact and that's the easiest way I think, for me.

Good. So, we'll add your LinkedIn profile if you're okay in the show notes. And with that, it has been an absolute pleasure to have you hear your thoughts.

 Thank you very much.

 Thank you so much, Marc.

Thank you.

 Thanks for listening. If you liked the show, feel free to share it with a friend and write a review if you have already done so. Thank you so much, and if you did not like the show. Don't bother and forget about it. Take care and stay safe. Fit for privacy helps you to create a culture of privacy and manage risks by creating, defining, and implementing a privacy strategy.  That includes delivering scenario-based training for your staff. We also help those who are looking to get certified in CIPPE, CIPM, and CIPT through on-demand courses that help you prepare and practice for certification exam. Want to know more, visit www.fit4privacy.com. That's www dot FIT the number 4, privacy.com. If you have questions or suggestions, drop an email at hello(@)fit4privacy.com. Until next time, goodbye. 

As organizations race to stay competitive in an increasingly digital economy, the ability to inspire trust is emerging as their most valuable currency. Through Marc Vael’s thoughtful insights, it's clear that building digital trust is not just a technical challenge—it's a strategic imperative.

The role of the Chief Digital Trust Officer symbolizes this shift. It is not enough to have strong security measures or impeccable compliance; organizations must cultivate a culture where trust is designed into every product, service, and interaction. And it is leaders like Marc who are lighting the way forward—demonstrating that success in digital trust demands a unique blend of technical excellence, emotional intelligence, strategic foresight, and unrelenting adaptability.

For professionals eyeing the future, Marc’s journey offers both inspiration and a roadmap: stay curious, remain resilient, embrace change, and never stop learning. In a world where digital trust will only grow in significance, those who step up to lead will not only shape their careers—they will shape the future of business itself.

If Marc’s story resonates with you and you're ready to explore the world of digital trust leadership, don't hesitate to connect with him on LinkedIn. The journey to becoming a digital trust leader starts with a single step—and perhaps, a single conversation.